Maps, Directions, and Place Reviews
Notable or not?
Pity this article is so bare - Drake Circus was the roundabout at that location, and the area that was demolished was Eastlake Street, and the old shopping area above it. The old area was a shocking example of bad architecture. And yes, we seem to have an area full of bins still there today with no development slap bang in the middle of the city. A lot of potential for an interesting article. Stevebritgimp 16:09, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
Pity this article was orginally so inaccurate - Drake Circus is the postal district and official sub-district of North Hill, plymouth. It currently includes the Musuem, Art Gallery, library, pubs, bars, cafes, solicitors, barristers chambers and shops. It is also one of the few areas in plymouth that was not destroyed in the blitz on plymouth during the 2nd world war. It does NOT include the shopping mall known as 'drakecircus' which falls within the postal district of Bretonside. Drake Circus has no legal or commercial connection to 'drakecircus' which is a protected and registered trademark. Visual and pedestrian access to the southern end of Drake Circus was fenced off by a purple builders fence in 2006 where it remains to this very day. The only reason reference to the shopping mall should exist in any article on Drake Circus is because of the purple fence. In all other respects the article was made to promote the commercial interests of the shopping mall and bears no relation to real or accurate facts.
The above comment was added by User:Yiwentang, 04:23, 30 October 2007
By the same token I cannot see any reason why DrakeCircus shopping mall is any more notable than any other shop or shopping mall. It is blatant spam and used to promote a commercial interest. If you wish to state publicly that Drake Circus is purely a shopping mall and not an area or address of the university, museum and various other organizations, then you should be put on notice that they will institute legal proceedings against you for the considerable damage you are causing. For example every degree, be it Masters, Bachelor or Doctorate etc issued by the University refers on it to the registered address 'drake circus' If attempts to misrepresent that address by implying or expressing that it is purely a shopping centre then expect a class lawsuit against you and the editors and owners of Wikipedia in particular but not limited to, the lowering of the reputation of the University and the devaluation of the issued degrees. Moreover the businesses within that district have been associated with the name Drake Circus for over 160 years and to suggest otherwise is a blatant libel. You have been warned. Yiwentang 14:04, 30 October 2007 (UTC)yiwenTang
It is an affrontry to academic research that a spammer trying to promote a spud-you-like site should be able to diminish the value of degree awards in this fashion. --Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.45.220.163 (talk) 18:27, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
There are over 27,000 Plymouth University students who are offended by the constant vanadalism of this article on Drake Circus by those seeking to promote a cheap shopping mall. The evidence of the truth is for all of them to see every day and Wikipedias denial of the truth has lowered its reputation to a level even lower than hitherto perceived by Universities throughout the globe. 11,000 of them dwell in accomodation halls in Drake Circus and to imply that Drake Circus is a term solely reserved to a cheap mall is insulting and degrading. --Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.157.81 (talk) 22:30, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
As a curator I have thoroughly checked the accuracy and relevancy of this article and nothing in it suggests any improprietary or misleading information. I live and work in a builing that is over 170 years old and located in Drake Circus. It is a listed building and to imply that it is linked to the likes of "spud-u-like" is the subject of a great deal of ridicule to the many thousands who live, work and study in this area. --Preceding unsigned comment added by Curatorpccgovuk (talk o contribs) 00:29, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
If you check the history page of the article many others have cited reliable sources to corrorbate their statements however all these references are continually deleted/vandalised. In particular if you look at the shaded grey area on this map university campus and then look at the address on this page university address hopefully you might appreciate that the shopping mall is not in the Drake Circus area. H.H.Land Registry and H.M. Valuation office records will prove beyond all reasonable doubt that the shopping mall fronts Bretonside - not Drake Circus. If you want proof of the local resentment i then come here and ask the local retailers how they feel about having their historical identity misappropiated. --Preceding unsigned comment added by Curatorpccgovuk (talk o [[Special:Contributions /Curatorpccgovuk|contribs]]) 01:25, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
To suggest "drake circus is a shopping mall" is equivalent to saying "Seattle is a tower". Its absurd and neglects the 24,000 students, residents, shopkeepers, bar, night clubs etc that all live work and play in Drake Circus. It not only insults the culture of drake circus but Wikipedia itself for allowing such nonsense to be published.
The obvious impression given to anyone reading this dispute is that certain administrators are desperate to keep in links to selected shops in which presumably they have a commercial interest. I have put 7 references on the other page and already they have all been swiftly removed. What a joke this encyclopedia is. Drake Circus is NOT just a shopping centre it's an area which among other things includes the University of Plymouth. Any moron can see the administrators are desperate to hide the truth. --Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.146.137.148 (talk) 11:41, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
I see new images of drake circusthis site has updated its page with the images the public outside plymouth are not suppose to see. --Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.151.171.40 (talk) 17:10, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
as a student who has studied in this area for 4 years i see absolutely nothing wrong with this article and canot understand why it is subject to a notablilty tag other than childish revenge from adminstrators hellbent at spamming or advertising unheard of bands or shops selected from a mall. The main issue in the area is the purple berlin wall designed to cut off the smaller retailers in the real Drake circus from the city centre.
the images seem pretty conclusive to me - Simon --Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.136.171.22 (talk) 22:19, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
I see this article has yet again been vandalised by 'webhamster' who has removed the list of the larger occupiers of Drake Circus on the basis that 'WP is not a phone book'. By all means remove the telephone numbers but to remove all the shop names on this page yet keep them in on the shopping mall page - what possible justification is there for excluding occupier names in one article and including them in another? --Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.136.171.203 (talk) 12:12, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
"Likewise a list of shops is more appropriate for the article about the shopping centre"
why? if you look at the list you deleted it referred to the Art Gallery, Musuem, Library, University, solicitors etc. The list of the shops in the shopping mall page specifically targets a few shops with promo-stubs leading from them - hardly 'encyclopedic' is it? --Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.42.76.143 (talk) 13:44, 2 November 2007 (UTC) Incidentally i have just read one of those stubs. basically its a company logo for spud-u-like with 3 lines of text including "It provides fresh and healthy food at a price which satisifes every budget and taste" . So this kind of commercial advertising meets your quality threshold whereas a paragraph that informs users of a university and musuem does not. Intresting. --Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.42.76.143 (talk) 13:51, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
The purpose i perceive the block is in place is to prevent new and better informed users to add to this article - such as the 'purple Berlin Wall' issue, images of its nightlife culture, its expansion and development into one of europes leading arts quarters, its academic and artistic history and connections - Joshua reynolds, Charles Babbage etc however i fear the article could be lost due purely to the fact it conflicts with the promotion of a shopping mall and to further achieve that aim chunks of its content will gradually be stripped away by those administrators promoting the mall as was demonstrated by the deletion of the major institutions in this area.
--Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.42.76.143 (talk) 17:46, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Little chance of anyone being able to add content to this artice when over the past 6 months you have removed all and any content, images and references that might conflict with the malls publicity. Out of interest why was the link to Plymouth's other shopping mall - the Armada_Centreremoved? If it was because it had nothing to do with drake circus or was outside the area then why has the link to the drakecircus shopping centre also not been removed - the better informed know that too has nothing to do with the Drake_Circus district.
Also why was this link removed[http://www.midashomes.co.uk/developments/overview.asp?dev_id=34 50 drake cirus it shows part of the huge investment that has been made into the drake circus area and with up to date images
"The Armada Centre was removed, based on the edit summary, because it isn't actually in the Drake Circus area." Neither is the shopping mall but you have left in a link to it in the article. --Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.132.102.112 (talk) 21:38, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
Builders Fence Video
DCSC deletion
Will somebody try to explain to me why "The shopping mall has a UK post office address of 'Drakecircus Shopping Centre, Bretonside, Plymouth' and remains outside the official area known as Drake Circus. It is not to be confused with the area named Drake Circus." was deleted by WebHamster. The statement was verified by a number of sources not least the drake circus district ora mall - "separate and distinct from the shopping centre within the Drake Circus area" If he says it is irrelevant to the subject then why does he insist on a link to the shopping mall article from this article?
--Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.155.198 (talk) 12:32, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Because the sentence had no relevance to this article. The confusion between the place names was covered further up in the article. Make up your mind, is this article about Drake Circus the area or Drake Circus the shopping centre? ---- WebHamster 12:43, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
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- I agree in its deletion as it duplicates content however i think the posters question was why is there a link to the shopping mall article from this article? Its already been established the two are seperate and apart - geographically, historically and in every other way.Nicole 50dc 21:00, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Notability
I've been thinking of nominating this article for deletion on the grounds of lack of notability ever since it was created. As WebHamster noted elsewhere [2] this sub-district doesn't appear to have had anything written about it.
What is a "sub-district" anyway? The Subdistrict article here says that in England it was part of a Registration district, possibly only a valid term until 1911; but maybe that article is wrong. My 10-year-old street plan of Plymouth shows Drake Circus as no more than a roundabout and a road leading off it to another road, North Hill. It's clearly less significant than areas of the city such as Devonport or Pennycomequick, both of which are named on my old map. What makes Drake Circus notable? Has anything interesting ever happened here? How does it compare, for instance, to Union Street, Plymouth? (should that even be here?)
There's interesting and conflicting guidance about parts of cities - some guidelines and essays that I've come across are here, here, and here. I must admit that I haven't yet read them all fully, but I'm working on it.
What does everyone think - should this article be put up for AfD to further help define consensus on the notability of such sections of cities? All temperate comments are welcome. --Smalljim 13:51, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
After endless discussion which just seems to go round and round in circles why not move the shopping mall article into a stub from Shopping_malls and move this article into a stub from plymouth maybe review them both in a few months time and if they have not improved then delete them.81.155.65.71 17:33, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Well someone had to do it, there's going to be no sensible discussion here so it may as well be at AfD where other uninvolved editors can discuss and decide. The arguing here will go on ad infinitum so is pointless. It will either pass AfD or it won't. ---- WebHamster 19:39, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Reservoir
I will try and add some images of the tablets and the reservoirs shortly81.155.65.71 00:49, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Bomb Shelter
Currently checking the copyright on images. I will add some of my own after the memorial ceremony expected in April 2008.81.155.65.71 00:49, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for saving me some time. I am waiting for the ceremony as i have looked at my images again and frankly they could be of any bomb shelter as there is nothing of the surrounding topography.Nicole 50dc 15:53, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Sub-district
Sorry to bang on about this, but I can't find any references to Drake Circus being a "sub-district" or a "subdistrict". As I said above, the term subdistrict appears to have gone out of use a hundred years or so ago. The subject of this article, Drake Circus, isn't even mentioned in any of the references already provided (other than one incidental mention as a part of the University's address). Can you give a reference that shows that the term Drake Circus refers to more than the street itself? --Smalljim 14:13, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
The bomb shelter was in the vicinity of the planetarium"as shown in this image [10] which as this site confirms [11]was in "...Drake Circus, Plymouth PL4 8AA United Kingdom"Nicole 50dc 02:35, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
01:36, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
Draft rewrite
Hello. You two still at it? You really deserve one another! While you've been bickering, I've produced a draft rewrite of the article based on verifiable information. It's at User:Smalljim/Drake Circus. This is in my user space, so don't edit it. You can comment on it here or on its talk page, but I repeat, it's not an article, it's my page and I'll revert any changes. I know it has rough edges and I will incorporate any sensible suggestions. I also know one of you won't like it, so, really, just don't bother me with all that unverified area stuff.
I invite the closing admin (pity him/her having to plough through all this!) to consider use of this draft as a possible outcome. --Smalljim 00:20, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
College of Art and Design
Before anyone disputes the fact that the college of Art is in Drake circus the link webhamster removed (because it seems their site returns a 404/missing for any external linking to a search result) was to the national archives. (Search terms are 'art college drake circus)
--Preceding unsigned comment added by Nicole 50dc (talk o contribs) 02:07, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
If you haven't noticed, there's already an article about the college, I wikilinked it, as such there is no necessity to give either a citation or an external link. If you read WP:EL as I suggested you would see that it says to keep external links to a minimum, whereas you appear to be trying to get external links for everything. Likewise WP:EL also recommends not putting external links inline and putting them in the links section at the end. Similarly you only need to supply inline citations when you are supplying verification for statements made in the text, you don't use them to supply a link that has pictures you want people to see. ---- WebHamster 02:43, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Planetarium and bomb shelter
The reason the Planetarium's postal address is Drake Circus is because it has been allocated the post code PL4 8AA, which, if you search on the Royal Mail site, is the generic post code for the University under whose auspices the Planetarium lies. It's actually on Portland Square from what I can see. So it's looking very much like the fact that mail isn't delivered direct to it, rather it is delivered in a mail drop/box in the Uni. Strike one for the local. As for being in the "vicinity" of, well that's virtually a WP:WEASEL word. How far is a vicinity in metres? Google would only convert from feet or yards. ---- WebHamster 03:15, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Images
The thumbnails are too small for partially sighted people to see them. Why can't the two leading images have a pixel width of at least 250 so that people can see them? Both images are optimized and within acceptable KB limits. --Preceding unsigned comment added by Nicole 50dc (talk o contribs) 03:30, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Existence of area remains unverified
In this edit[12] that you (Nicole 50dc) made to the article yesterday, you stated that Drake Circus occupies:
the area in and around North Hill, Portland Square, Charles Street, Tavistock Place and the Western section of Regent Street.
This statement is central to the article, and it is unverified and disputed. You must have had a reference at hand when you wrote it. Please provide this reference. Smalljim 10:54, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Charles Street is not in Drake Circus which is why it cannot be verified and which is why I took it out and replaced it with Hampton Street which can by for example the 50@DrakeCircus and Business school sites. Portland Square is in Drake Circus and has been verified by many references e.g.University, Planetarium and bomb shelter references etc and can plainly be seen by any image you wish to publish of the area. As for the western section of Regent street this is home to the College of Art which I have verified by the UK.Gov site. Tavistock Place is the postal address for some of the premises in the block of Edwardian Buildings which front what you mistakenly refer to as Drake Circus street or road. If Drake Circus is not as you allege an area you still have not explained why for example the money centre has a postal address of Drake Circus which can be supported by Rates Valuation Office records etc. The expansion of the university has meant that some areas like Hampton Street which hitherto were outside the old drake circus area have now been brought into the area by postal, commercial rating and common usage by everyone who works, studies or lives in the area. As they now own the majority of the buildings in that area (in some case all of it e.g. Gibbon Street) they are the biggest influence on what that area is called in much the same way as the Mall made Eastlake Walk, Charles Street and Catherine Street all part of the DrakeCircus shopping centreNicole 50dc 12:31, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
I took out reference to the shopping mall as all parties agree that it has nothing to do with Drake Circus the area.Nicole 50dc 15:46, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Local Authority Archives
A point to note is that when researching old records or archives a lot of material was filed under 'Drake's Circus' or 'Drakes circus' and not just 'Drake Circus'. Also a lot of old maps and records on the subject were destroyed during the war making research difficult.86.151.170.3 13:12, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Compromising
(reset indent) Yes, I know the large photo is an anomaly, but it seemed to nicely illustrate the text directly above. Regarding the archives citation, I don't think that's in the rewrite, is it? It certainly shouldn't be, for the reaasons you state. Anyway the article's future isn't looking good, with two deletes in the last hour. Smalljim 00:52, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Source of the article : Wikipedia
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